Celeste and Debbi - you're right, the site doesn't seem to have a shortage of writers. A single ad on a writing website would attract hundreds of new writers, I'm sure - I think I found CC through Writer's Digest, but I could be wrong. Anyways, why would CC pay someone to find authors who would have found their way here eventually? That's just throwing money away.
I must have started here after they changed the rules about affiliates bringing in customers instead of authors - I don't remember that at all. I still think it's something the new owners here should revisit.
And Evelyn, a site like this for ficton would never work. The fiction world is too competitive - editors at literary magazines and publishers have thousands of manuscripts sent to them each month. They don't need to go searching for short stories and manuscripts because they have piles of them sitting on their desks. Shame, too, because wouldn't using a site like this be so much easier for fiction writers?
Affiliates (recruited authors)
Moderators: Celeste Stewart, Ed
Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
Evelyn, I have to disagree. I've submitted and sold articles, so I don't consider myself a "random link poster." But CC, at
least for the moment, is something I do on the side. If there were a writing requirement attached to affiliate earnings, I probably wouldn't bother with affiliates -- the affiliate return is so small, I'd be no more motivated to write for CC than I already am. The point of the affiliate program is to bring writers to CC. It's apparently working, or CC wouldn't be giving away the 5%. So it isn't really an issue of "compromise."
Same way, Celeste, that it's not a question of our "paying off our debt" to the marketer. It's not our debt. CC pays the marketers; we don't. Whether we arrived via a marketer or not, we're making the same amount of money. Don't get me wrong -- I understand that when you're generating as much money as you are, it doesn't seem right to give so much away to some guy who posted a link. Still, don't confuse CC's income with ours. As you said, it's up to CC how it "chooses to spread that 35% around." If you think we should be paid 70% once we reach a certain threshold -- and I think that would be great -- that's not necessarily the same issue as what CC pays people to bring in more writers. And if CC decides one day that 10K or 80K is too much to pay sponsors, you can be sure they'll make an adjustment. In the meantime, it's the possibility of signing up big sellers that keeps people reeling 'em in, so CC may consider it a worthwhile investment.
least for the moment, is something I do on the side. If there were a writing requirement attached to affiliate earnings, I probably wouldn't bother with affiliates -- the affiliate return is so small, I'd be no more motivated to write for CC than I already am. The point of the affiliate program is to bring writers to CC. It's apparently working, or CC wouldn't be giving away the 5%. So it isn't really an issue of "compromise."
Same way, Celeste, that it's not a question of our "paying off our debt" to the marketer. It's not our debt. CC pays the marketers; we don't. Whether we arrived via a marketer or not, we're making the same amount of money. Don't get me wrong -- I understand that when you're generating as much money as you are, it doesn't seem right to give so much away to some guy who posted a link. Still, don't confuse CC's income with ours. As you said, it's up to CC how it "chooses to spread that 35% around." If you think we should be paid 70% once we reach a certain threshold -- and I think that would be great -- that's not necessarily the same issue as what CC pays people to bring in more writers. And if CC decides one day that 10K or 80K is too much to pay sponsors, you can be sure they'll make an adjustment. In the meantime, it's the possibility of signing up big sellers that keeps people reeling 'em in, so CC may consider it a worthwhile investment.
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Celeste Stewart
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Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
I just think that there should be a cap. If any marketer thinks that they're going to land the next Celeste here, they're likely to be severely disappointed. I'm definitely not the norm and I doubt anyone really expects that they'll find someone who consistently returns the numbers that a few of us do. CC doesn't lead anyone into thinking that there's big bucks to be made with the affiliate link (and honestly is anyone making big bucks besides a couple of sponsors? Of the high earners, I know one whose "sponsor" is a relative so not worries there.) . I doubt CC has given much thought to the implications at this end of the spectrum and am asking them to at least look at capping the numbers at some point. When you get to this point, you may feel the same way.
I'm also completely aware of how these percentages aren't really ours. Trust me, I get that and I'm generally cool with it. The same could be said of income taxes. Yet, don't we care how our tax dollars are spent? If I don't earn,the government doesn't get my income tax. If I don't earn, CC doesn't get my percentage nor does the link creator. So while the fee that comes out of my earnings isn't really mine to spend, if CC is paying a debt to someone for sending me here, I'd sure like them to make a decision as to when that debt is paid off. It's not up to the marketer how much I make here; it's up to me. If the marketer were actively promoting my articles or recommending me to clients and finding me work, no problem. But that's not the case. The marketer said something along the lines of "Try CC" and I clicked. I should have created a dummy account, made my own link, and signed up under myself. Hmmn, I wonder if that's why none of our so-called affiliates never "write" anything
?
I'm also completely aware of how these percentages aren't really ours. Trust me, I get that and I'm generally cool with it. The same could be said of income taxes. Yet, don't we care how our tax dollars are spent? If I don't earn,the government doesn't get my income tax. If I don't earn, CC doesn't get my percentage nor does the link creator. So while the fee that comes out of my earnings isn't really mine to spend, if CC is paying a debt to someone for sending me here, I'd sure like them to make a decision as to when that debt is paid off. It's not up to the marketer how much I make here; it's up to me. If the marketer were actively promoting my articles or recommending me to clients and finding me work, no problem. But that's not the case. The marketer said something along the lines of "Try CC" and I clicked. I should have created a dummy account, made my own link, and signed up under myself. Hmmn, I wonder if that's why none of our so-called affiliates never "write" anything
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jadedragon
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Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
Maybe people do create dummy accounts - that would stink! Are you sure you even have a sponsor? I know I joined through an affiliate link because I remember reading an article, clicking a link and seeing the referrers name. I could not find the article later and there is no obvious way of knowing who he was.
If anyone thinks that they have paid enough to the person who supplied the link and did nothing more, than you are welcome to rejoin through my link anytime
I'll give you advice (no assurance on the accuracy of it), help promote your work (I love to promote) and send you a congratulatory note on every sale. I'll even send you letters reminding you to write more if you want.
As for selling fiction... that's a different flooded market. Remember CC customers are looking for articles to use on their marketing websites, for submission to article directories, and for use with affiliate promotions. Looking for a topic? Look through popular clickbank products for topic ideas.
If anyone thinks that they have paid enough to the person who supplied the link and did nothing more, than you are welcome to rejoin through my link anytime
I'll give you advice (no assurance on the accuracy of it), help promote your work (I love to promote) and send you a congratulatory note on every sale. I'll even send you letters reminding you to write more if you want. As for selling fiction... that's a different flooded market. Remember CC customers are looking for articles to use on their marketing websites, for submission to article directories, and for use with affiliate promotions. Looking for a topic? Look through popular clickbank products for topic ideas.
Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
I'm curious here. These numbers you are throwing around Celeste - are they supposed to represent the amount of money you have made, or the amount of money that your referrer has been getting. I'm just reading the numbers and am sort of confused here.
From the impression I've gotten, the $10k to $80k that you've mentioned in your various posts sound like the money you've paid out to your referrer... that's a lot of money, but if it's the money that you've given your referrer, then it means you've sold $200k - $1.6 mil on this site. I didn't realize those numbers were even possible, let alone that anyone had reached that point. Kudos to you! Even after the CC cut, if you have given out $80k to your referrer, it means you've earned over $1 million dollars here. Simply incredible! Or maybe I have my math wrong / have gotten the completely wrong idea lol...
Now, maybe I just haven't sold enough articles to feel the same way you do about that 5%, but even with the modest sales that I've had, I never once thought to myself, I wish that I could have that 5% for myself - and if not for myself, then send it back to CC. I'm sure it would feel nice to get a little more from each sale, but really, 5% isn't going to change my life. If you are so concerned about the 5% loss you feel you have to endure, then why not try and refer some more people to the site. Replacing the 5% lost to your referrer, with 5% from the people that you refer should amount to the same thing, right? And CC would gain some new writers at the same time. Wouldn't that be better for the site? After all, more writers = more diverse content, which opens the door for more potential customers.
Where do I stand on the referral issue? I don't have a problem with it. I'm happy to give my 5% to someone that I don't know (I don't even know if I have a referrer or not... I don't remember how I found this site back in the day. For all I know, my 5% could be going straight back to CC.) Without that person, would I have found this site? Maybe. Probably. Who really knows? But if it wasn't for that person, then it would have been someone else to send me here and I'd be just as happy to give my 5% to that person instead.
Just so you know, (full disclosure as they say...) I have also spent a lot of time trying to gather new referrals, with decent success. That being said, about 95% of the people that I ended up referring never submitted anything to the site (or nothing that was accepted anyway). And the ones that did, have sold quite a few articles (350ish licences between them), but certainly not enough to get me rich. In fact, each licence sold is worth on average less than a dollar, so though I've tried hard to bring more people to the site, and explained in detail how this site works, I've only made around $300 from my referrals - much less than I've earned myself from this site.
When I log in to see that one of the people under me has made a sale... I feel happy for whoever made the sale. Yes, the $0.75 or whatever that I receive makes me jump for joy (okay, that's an over-statement), but still, sometimes, it's those sales that bring me to payout when my articles aren't selling. If my selling an article can help someone else reach payout and in turn, perhaps help them pay off some bills, then the more power to them. I'm happy to oblige.
Wow, really didn't expect to write that much, but had to get my two cents in - or perhaps my 5%'s worth.
From the impression I've gotten, the $10k to $80k that you've mentioned in your various posts sound like the money you've paid out to your referrer... that's a lot of money, but if it's the money that you've given your referrer, then it means you've sold $200k - $1.6 mil on this site. I didn't realize those numbers were even possible, let alone that anyone had reached that point. Kudos to you! Even after the CC cut, if you have given out $80k to your referrer, it means you've earned over $1 million dollars here. Simply incredible! Or maybe I have my math wrong / have gotten the completely wrong idea lol...
Now, maybe I just haven't sold enough articles to feel the same way you do about that 5%, but even with the modest sales that I've had, I never once thought to myself, I wish that I could have that 5% for myself - and if not for myself, then send it back to CC. I'm sure it would feel nice to get a little more from each sale, but really, 5% isn't going to change my life. If you are so concerned about the 5% loss you feel you have to endure, then why not try and refer some more people to the site. Replacing the 5% lost to your referrer, with 5% from the people that you refer should amount to the same thing, right? And CC would gain some new writers at the same time. Wouldn't that be better for the site? After all, more writers = more diverse content, which opens the door for more potential customers.
Where do I stand on the referral issue? I don't have a problem with it. I'm happy to give my 5% to someone that I don't know (I don't even know if I have a referrer or not... I don't remember how I found this site back in the day. For all I know, my 5% could be going straight back to CC.) Without that person, would I have found this site? Maybe. Probably. Who really knows? But if it wasn't for that person, then it would have been someone else to send me here and I'd be just as happy to give my 5% to that person instead.
Just so you know, (full disclosure as they say...) I have also spent a lot of time trying to gather new referrals, with decent success. That being said, about 95% of the people that I ended up referring never submitted anything to the site (or nothing that was accepted anyway). And the ones that did, have sold quite a few articles (350ish licences between them), but certainly not enough to get me rich. In fact, each licence sold is worth on average less than a dollar, so though I've tried hard to bring more people to the site, and explained in detail how this site works, I've only made around $300 from my referrals - much less than I've earned myself from this site.
When I log in to see that one of the people under me has made a sale... I feel happy for whoever made the sale. Yes, the $0.75 or whatever that I receive makes me jump for joy (okay, that's an over-statement), but still, sometimes, it's those sales that bring me to payout when my articles aren't selling. If my selling an article can help someone else reach payout and in turn, perhaps help them pay off some bills, then the more power to them. I'm happy to oblige.
Wow, really didn't expect to write that much, but had to get my two cents in - or perhaps my 5%'s worth.
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BarryDavidson
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Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
That's kind of how I looked at it, but not in so many words. I too don't give a rodent's posterior what CC does with its share. Well, that's not totally accurate. I do care that the site stays up and running, that Ed stays properly compensated, and that we don't wind up with a site full of ads and other annoyances like just about every other site out there.4rumid wrote: it's up to CC how it "chooses to spread that 35% around."
I'll tell you honestly, I did jump for joy after my first month here when over five hundred bucks appeared in my Paypal account just in time to do my Christmas shopping. I'd been doing the "happy butt-wiggle in my chair" all month as the sold emails poured in. Hell, I wish the cost of living was only thirty-five percent of my family's income. The government takes about the same amount after all is said and done, and we get less return for it. CC administrators also don't have interns who actually read our mail and send form letters without them ever having seen what we wrote.
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Celeste Stewart
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Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
Nessie, yes, those ranges are possible.
I do have about 15 affiliates. I've earned $1500 in affiliate sales - nowhere close to what I've earned out for someone else. Of those affiliate sales, only $68 went to some writer that found me via a link, the rest I had to "work" for in that those sales went to personal friends who I coached, proofread their work, and even referred to my own clients.
I do have about 15 affiliates. I've earned $1500 in affiliate sales - nowhere close to what I've earned out for someone else. Of those affiliate sales, only $68 went to some writer that found me via a link, the rest I had to "work" for in that those sales went to personal friends who I coached, proofread their work, and even referred to my own clients.
Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
Hi Guys-
Love to see the heated discussion and I think everyone has had some great points. First off let me quickly address Celeste: You may have had your account attached to a referrer, but no one is currently been linked to your account and thus receiving 5% of your gross sales. This is not to say you never had a referrer, but since we have had control over the site for the last couple of years, we have no evidence of this person receiving any portion of your sales. Hopefully that will make you feel better about the whole thing.
As for the discussion of the future of affiliates and their role in the site we do feel that the program is a good one and with a wide net cast, we hope to catch lots of good writers. We are also working on making sure that new writers signing up are creating products that are up to our standards. Something that some of our older writers may not be aware of is that we have recently instituted a grammar and syntax test for new sign ups. This will hopefully weed out ineligible candidates that take up editorial time, slowing down the whole process. As we tweak the test to more effectively limit participation will leave the editorial staff more time to push our loyal and skilled writers to get content onto the site.
We really value the writers on constant-content and work hard to drive more of them to the site. We feel spending 5% kicking back to people who show writers the route to our site is a good investment, and we wouldn't want to decrease the already limited incentive that it provides, by removing the in-perpetuity aspect of the program. We are always looking for the next big writer on the site and if that means we pay to find them, we are totally comfortable with that arrangement.
Once again. Thanks for all your hard work and commitment to the dialogue on our future.
Sincerely,
David Kool
Love to see the heated discussion and I think everyone has had some great points. First off let me quickly address Celeste: You may have had your account attached to a referrer, but no one is currently been linked to your account and thus receiving 5% of your gross sales. This is not to say you never had a referrer, but since we have had control over the site for the last couple of years, we have no evidence of this person receiving any portion of your sales. Hopefully that will make you feel better about the whole thing.
As for the discussion of the future of affiliates and their role in the site we do feel that the program is a good one and with a wide net cast, we hope to catch lots of good writers. We are also working on making sure that new writers signing up are creating products that are up to our standards. Something that some of our older writers may not be aware of is that we have recently instituted a grammar and syntax test for new sign ups. This will hopefully weed out ineligible candidates that take up editorial time, slowing down the whole process. As we tweak the test to more effectively limit participation will leave the editorial staff more time to push our loyal and skilled writers to get content onto the site.
We really value the writers on constant-content and work hard to drive more of them to the site. We feel spending 5% kicking back to people who show writers the route to our site is a good investment, and we wouldn't want to decrease the already limited incentive that it provides, by removing the in-perpetuity aspect of the program. We are always looking for the next big writer on the site and if that means we pay to find them, we are totally comfortable with that arrangement.
Once again. Thanks for all your hard work and commitment to the dialogue on our future.
Sincerely,
David Kool
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nichewriter
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Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
All I can say is...this is AWESOME!Constant wrote:Something that some of our older writers may not be aware of is that we have recently instituted a grammar and syntax test for new sign ups. This will hopefully weed out ineligible candidates that take up editorial time, slowing down the whole process.
~Sherry
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Celeste Stewart
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Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
Love the prescreening! That will definitely help both in terms of time saved for Ed as well as for writers' expectations.
Glad to hear "My 5%" goes to CC and not to some random stranger
Despite the passionate discussion, I wasn't overly burdened by this but I am happy to know CC gets that extra percentage.
Glad to hear "My 5%" goes to CC and not to some random stranger
Despite the passionate discussion, I wasn't overly burdened by this but I am happy to know CC gets that extra percentage.Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
Yes I agree about the new grammar and syntax test, that should seriously speed things up a great deal! Excellent work
(I just love how this site is always working with the writers to make it even better!)
(I just love how this site is always working with the writers to make it even better!)
Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
Prescreening is a brilliant idea. And I'm willing to bet Ed is very happy with the change
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jadedragon
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Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
As someone with a site ranking very high for "Constant Content Review" I am very pleased to hear Dave's commitment to the Affiliate program. Maybe I can help find that next super productive writer The screening program makes a lot of sense too.
The screening program makes a lot of sense too.Re: Affiliates (recruited authors)
Thanks for the kind words guys! We do think it is a central premise of our work to be responsive to you and your concerns and take those concerns forward with us as we change and develop the site.
Love
DK
Love
DK