I can echo the hamburger-flipping sentiments from Grouchy.
JD, if you've been using two hyphens with spaces, rest assured that this is better than using a single hyphen with no spaces to simulate an em dash. When writers do this, a little part of me dies inside.
Ed
Proper way to produce an m-dash in text-only content?
Moderators: Celeste Stewart, Ed, Constant
A single hyphen with no spaces either side is a, er, hyphen, isn't it? 
No, that looks very confusing. Grouchy was right that if you type two hyphens together immediately after a word and leave no space before the next, Word converts it into a dash.
I will have articles with all examples of how to show the em dash (apart from the single hyphen with no spaces. I hope!)
No, that looks very confusing. Grouchy was right that if you type two hyphens together immediately after a word and leave no space before the next, Word converts it into a dash. I will have articles with all examples of how to show the em dash (apart from the single hyphen with no spaces. I hope!)
I prefer to think of it as being warriors, maybe even crusaders. Hey, somebody has to do it.
If parts of us die inside over this stuff, that could make for some very interesting autopsies. ("Hey, Joe, come look at what a dangling participle did to his kidneys!")
And no, I haven't even had a sip of my rita.
If parts of us die inside over this stuff, that could make for some very interesting autopsies. ("Hey, Joe, come look at what a dangling participle did to his kidneys!")
And no, I haven't even had a sip of my rita.
I'm in a fine predicament this morning. [i]Strunk and White[/i] came up missing and I can't find the url that Ed gave months ago to find information on all things grammatical. I'm confused about the m & n dashes, hyphens, and curious how I missed this lesson. I must have been playing hooky that day. If someone would post examples of how to correctly use the hyphens and dashes, I'd be forever grateful.
My confusion may come from a lack of caffeine.
T
My confusion may come from a lack of caffeine.
T
You may be referring to the "sticky" post on hyphenated adjectives: http://www.constant-content.com/forum/v ... php?t=1099
We haven't actually talked about n- or m-dashes until now, and it was on my list to blog about!
Basically, m-dashes are used to break off (or up) a thought.
"No wait! You forgot your--" Sally said as the car pulled away.
Given the changing climate - and people's changing views - we are now entering a stage of environmental awareness.
N-dashes are, technically, slightly larger than hyphens, but in the internet world, this difference doesn't really matter. N-dashes are, for example, used to punctuate a date (12-10-2007). We use "hyphens" for this, even though it isn't called a hyphen in this situation. I'll see if I can find a good resource on the web that explains them all in detail.
Ed
We haven't actually talked about n- or m-dashes until now, and it was on my list to blog about!
Basically, m-dashes are used to break off (or up) a thought.
"No wait! You forgot your--" Sally said as the car pulled away.
Given the changing climate - and people's changing views - we are now entering a stage of environmental awareness.
N-dashes are, technically, slightly larger than hyphens, but in the internet world, this difference doesn't really matter. N-dashes are, for example, used to punctuate a date (12-10-2007). We use "hyphens" for this, even though it isn't called a hyphen in this situation. I'll see if I can find a good resource on the web that explains them all in detail.
Ed
Last edited by Ed on Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks Ed, for the quick response. I found this site: http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/091502.htm that gives some information about the em & en quandary.
I meant I must have been playing hooky from high school or college English and composition classes the day the dashes were discussed.
I sure appreciate your attention to the details of the English language, Ed.
T
I meant I must have been playing hooky from high school or college English and composition classes the day the dashes were discussed.
I sure appreciate your attention to the details of the English language, Ed.
T
I know they certainly weren't discussed in any of my classes. I learned how to use them by reading epic fantasy novels as a junior high school student. (Great for vocabulary building, but not so great for making friends. 
)This makes me curious about how many people actually *did* get lessons about dashes.
Ed
)This makes me curious about how many people actually *did* get lessons about dashes. Ed
I wonder how much grammar is being taught in schools across the board. Grammar and geography no longer seem to be top priorities which makes little sense. As the world becomes smaller in scope it seems geography and communication would be more important. Just my two-cents worth.
I've never read epic fantasies, except Tolkien., but from now on I'll watch for the em & en hyphens in whatever I read.
Now...has anyone seen my [i]Strunk and White[/i]? Oh lord did I use those dashes correctly? (Looking over my shoulder to see if anyone noticed.)
T
I've never read epic fantasies, except Tolkien., but from now on I'll watch for the em & en hyphens in whatever I read.
Now...has anyone seen my [i]Strunk and White[/i]? Oh lord did I use those dashes correctly? (Looking over my shoulder to see if anyone noticed.)
T
Found this on the web...
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/tb-b ... n_4.11_dah
For articles submitted to CC, should we be using the "On the Web" dashes as opposed to the "in print documents..." ones?
(This does, of course, assume the writer knows how and when to use dashes (no, let's not go there...!))
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/tb-b ... n_4.11_dah
For articles submitted to CC, should we be using the "On the Web" dashes as opposed to the "in print documents..." ones?
(This does, of course, assume the writer knows how and when to use dashes (no, let's not go there...!))
Well, it would depend upon if the speaker trailed off or was interrupted by something else. Maybe Sally was saying that as the neighbor's dog bit her leg or the old lady next door yelled at her to get inside and put some clothes on.
If she trailed off sadly, ellipses would be appropriate. If she was interrupted in the middle of a sentence (as I was trying to, not very successfully, illustrate), an em dash would be best.
JD, use whatever you are most comfortable with, as long as it is consistent throughout the document. I notice the page you found says to surround two hyphens with spaces to simulate an em dash. If this is what you're used to, that's fine too.
Topdycke - I once heard that schools sometimes teach students to "spell creatively." I guess no more sentence diagramming.
Did you find your "Strunk and White"?
If she trailed off sadly, ellipses would be appropriate. If she was interrupted in the middle of a sentence (as I was trying to, not very successfully, illustrate), an em dash would be best.
JD, use whatever you are most comfortable with, as long as it is consistent throughout the document. I notice the page you found says to surround two hyphens with spaces to simulate an em dash. If this is what you're used to, that's fine too.
Topdycke - I once heard that schools sometimes teach students to "spell creatively." I guess no more sentence diagramming.
Did you find your "Strunk and White"?It seems the nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from in any particular area. :-)
I just finished reading, "Dumbing Down Our Kids: Why American Children Feel Good about Themselves but Can't Read, Write, or Add" by Charles L. Sykes (1995). Creative spelling is only the least of the spectacular catastrophe taking place in the school systems!
I just finished reading, "Dumbing Down Our Kids: Why American Children Feel Good about Themselves but Can't Read, Write, or Add" by Charles L. Sykes (1995). Creative spelling is only the least of the spectacular catastrophe taking place in the school systems!
I find most people's spelling is creative enough without it being taught to them. Mine included when I'm tired or in a hurry.
About standards . . . I understand that people react differently to the world around them (or the writing under their noses). We all notice different language nuances, so we all need to work on different aspects of language. Writing is certainly one part observation and one part application. A person can learn a lot just by reading carefully and gathering information about certain language conventions. It's true that these conventions are changing because of technology and the way we communicate, but I'm certainly glad we haven't gotten to the point where everyone shpels kreyaituvlee.
Ed
About standards . . . I understand that people react differently to the world around them (or the writing under their noses). We all notice different language nuances, so we all need to work on different aspects of language. Writing is certainly one part observation and one part application. A person can learn a lot just by reading carefully and gathering information about certain language conventions. It's true that these conventions are changing because of technology and the way we communicate, but I'm certainly glad we haven't gotten to the point where everyone shpels kreyaituvlee.
Ed