Hi Grouchy,
about writing from anger. It's cool to be invited. My third book is with the publishers now. It is the final part of my trilogy of prison writing from Spanish prisons. Like many things done in anger, your feelings may change after the event. ie; the anti-Spanish sentiment in the books has diluted somewhat now that I have left Spain. Describing violence and explicit scenes is much sharper and accurate when you write it as it happens or very shortly afterwards.
Depression for me is deciding whether the anvil is inside my chest or sitting on it.
Regards, chancer.
ED as writer
Moderators: Celeste Stewart, Ed
What an interesting topic! It's part of the human condition to suffer set-backs, sorrow, and for some injustices that help define us. I have written from a very dark and angry place as a catharsis. I also participated in art therapy by drawing and painting my childhood demons. The more tangible they become, the more I began to let go of them.
During the midst of depression I wrote with fierce obssession that I wish I could bring back. Spending entire days alone at home while the children were in school allowed me time to write a book that lies in a taped up box. I don't know that I will ever do anything with that book, but I keep it to as a remembrance of where I was, where I wanted to be, and how I maneuvered my way out of the abyss.
I don't know about anywhere else, but putting the anger on the page released it for me, not overnight, but eventually the hurt, anger, and hate I felt was laid to rest and I recognized that every experience, good and bad, makes me who I am.
On another note...a writer friend told me that no one wants to read someone elses pain unless it's relatable. His recommendation was if I wanted to make a living writing I must approach is as a business, not as an emotional, thin skinned wimp trumpeting my worst days and biggest fears. I took his advice on some level, but still write for me, too.
I keep a quote from Stephen King on my stuck to my monitor. "You must not come lightly to the page." Sometimes that means searching in the dark corners to retrieve the pain.
During the midst of depression I wrote with fierce obssession that I wish I could bring back. Spending entire days alone at home while the children were in school allowed me time to write a book that lies in a taped up box. I don't know that I will ever do anything with that book, but I keep it to as a remembrance of where I was, where I wanted to be, and how I maneuvered my way out of the abyss.
I don't know about anywhere else, but putting the anger on the page released it for me, not overnight, but eventually the hurt, anger, and hate I felt was laid to rest and I recognized that every experience, good and bad, makes me who I am.
On another note...a writer friend told me that no one wants to read someone elses pain unless it's relatable. His recommendation was if I wanted to make a living writing I must approach is as a business, not as an emotional, thin skinned wimp trumpeting my worst days and biggest fears. I took his advice on some level, but still write for me, too.
I keep a quote from Stephen King on my stuck to my monitor. "You must not come lightly to the page." Sometimes that means searching in the dark corners to retrieve the pain.
Some interesting comments.
Grouchy - I agree with recommending The Power of Now. I found that to be a very powerful book - for those who haven't read it, it addresses how to change the focus of your life, with the goal waking yourself up to the present moment. Includes lots of great practices to become awake and aware. And BTW, reading your comment about your life experiences - sounds like you've been thru some tough times. I'm sorry.
Ed - re: depression. Have dealt with this in my life, a few bleak episodes. Luckily, I had what I consider the good kind of depression, the kind related to a specific event; rather than the free floating, what-is-the-point kind, which is much harder to deal with IMO. Sounds like you've done some good self-work. I learned over many years that it's okay, in fact it's very good, to care about myself and self-tend. I'm trying to teach this to my son. I tell him that he ought to treat himself at least as well as he treats his dog (who he adores).
And Chancer, I too would like to hear more about your books, and your experiences.
All of this dark stuff makes rich fodder for writing I think, to relate back to the main point.
Grouchy - I agree with recommending The Power of Now. I found that to be a very powerful book - for those who haven't read it, it addresses how to change the focus of your life, with the goal waking yourself up to the present moment. Includes lots of great practices to become awake and aware. And BTW, reading your comment about your life experiences - sounds like you've been thru some tough times. I'm sorry.
Ed - re: depression. Have dealt with this in my life, a few bleak episodes. Luckily, I had what I consider the good kind of depression, the kind related to a specific event; rather than the free floating, what-is-the-point kind, which is much harder to deal with IMO. Sounds like you've done some good self-work. I learned over many years that it's okay, in fact it's very good, to care about myself and self-tend. I'm trying to teach this to my son. I tell him that he ought to treat himself at least as well as he treats his dog (who he adores).
And Chancer, I too would like to hear more about your books, and your experiences.
All of this dark stuff makes rich fodder for writing I think, to relate back to the main point.
[quote]On another note...a writer friend told me that no one wants to read someone elses pain unless it's relatable. His recommendation was if I wanted to make a living writing I must approach is as a business, not as an emotional, thin skinned wimp trumpeting my worst days and biggest fears. I took his advice on some level, but still write for me, too. [/quote]
I don't think I agree with what your writer friend told you. I think it is the job of a writer to explore different facets of the human condition. Perhaps happy endings and upbeat pieces sell well, but I think there are always those who are inspired or moved by writers who shed light on the dark stuff too. You see that in film with the success of The Sea Inside, The Pianist, or what is it - The Diving Bell and the Butterfly? In books - how about Dostoyevski, or Elie Wiesel's Night, Kosinski's Steps or The Painted Bird, Melville's Moby Dick, the author escapes, but the book The Kite Runner, or The Swallows of Kabul, or even Dennis Lehane's work - the list goes on and on. Some of the best literature grew out of pain, obsession. loss and fear.
Sort of related, sort of not: I've always had a theory that when people get lost, when they lose it a bit, that they do not lose their minds. They lose eveyone else's mind. And writing through that tangle is a way that some writers connect back to the world.
I don't think I agree with what your writer friend told you. I think it is the job of a writer to explore different facets of the human condition. Perhaps happy endings and upbeat pieces sell well, but I think there are always those who are inspired or moved by writers who shed light on the dark stuff too. You see that in film with the success of The Sea Inside, The Pianist, or what is it - The Diving Bell and the Butterfly? In books - how about Dostoyevski, or Elie Wiesel's Night, Kosinski's Steps or The Painted Bird, Melville's Moby Dick, the author escapes, but the book The Kite Runner, or The Swallows of Kabul, or even Dennis Lehane's work - the list goes on and on. Some of the best literature grew out of pain, obsession. loss and fear.
Sort of related, sort of not: I've always had a theory that when people get lost, when they lose it a bit, that they do not lose their minds. They lose eveyone else's mind. And writing through that tangle is a way that some writers connect back to the world.
Hmm. Well, it depends upon how the writer addresses the dark emotions. If it's completely subjective, the reader will not be able to connect, and the writing will be too "woe is me." But if it is objective and the writer connects to his or her audience, the writing can transcend entertainment and either help to heal others or send a message about a personal journey.
Grouchy, C.R.,I will check out that book. I am usually wary of self-help books, but if intelligent people are reading it, this one must be worthwhile. "How to Be an Adult" has sort of a condescending title (so it's important to prepare a person before giving it as a gift), but I'd be interested to know if anyone picks it up in the future and what their thoughts are.
I think one thing that modern writers agree upon is that the writer needs to be healthy in order to write at his or her best. I believe this is true. Sure, we had Dorothy Parkers and Fitzgeralds and Poes and other depressed alcoholics who committed suicide, or at least attempted it. But the world is a different place, and writing while living, surviving, and making money requires writers to have endless amounts of energy, be able to gather and understand information rapidly, and to to see/record the world in such a way that will jive with audience members that come from all backgrounds, among other things.
It's true that the feelings that come with depression are part of the human condition, but some people were just missed when the seratonin shots were being poured. And/or were adopted by trolls.
But you can either choose to be someone different and surprise even yourself, or you can get caught up in what other people or your own darn brain is telling you. Of course a person can't just "cheer up," but there are numerous changes a person can make to lifestyle, relationship choices, career moves, and priority placement in order to regain balance. Taking responsibility for yourself is a first step, and I see a lot of people with depression, anxiety, or other problems who refuse to take responsibility for themselves, and they are completely at its mercy.
Ed
Grouchy, C.R.,I will check out that book. I am usually wary of self-help books, but if intelligent people are reading it, this one must be worthwhile. "How to Be an Adult" has sort of a condescending title (so it's important to prepare a person before giving it as a gift), but I'd be interested to know if anyone picks it up in the future and what their thoughts are.
I think one thing that modern writers agree upon is that the writer needs to be healthy in order to write at his or her best. I believe this is true. Sure, we had Dorothy Parkers and Fitzgeralds and Poes and other depressed alcoholics who committed suicide, or at least attempted it. But the world is a different place, and writing while living, surviving, and making money requires writers to have endless amounts of energy, be able to gather and understand information rapidly, and to to see/record the world in such a way that will jive with audience members that come from all backgrounds, among other things.
It's true that the feelings that come with depression are part of the human condition, but some people were just missed when the seratonin shots were being poured. And/or were adopted by trolls.
But you can either choose to be someone different and surprise even yourself, or you can get caught up in what other people or your own darn brain is telling you. Of course a person can't just "cheer up," but there are numerous changes a person can make to lifestyle, relationship choices, career moves, and priority placement in order to regain balance. Taking responsibility for yourself is a first step, and I see a lot of people with depression, anxiety, or other problems who refuse to take responsibility for themselves, and they are completely at its mercy.Ed
Re: Self work. Plastic surgery for the soul?
Re: Dostoevsky. Dostoevsky uncannily connects with the audience, especially where it hurts. "Notes from the Underground," makes you loathe and feel loathesome at the same time. I would feel it would be worth it to be able to capture something like that and put it on paper, so I can agree with you there, C.R.
Re: Dostoevsky. Dostoevsky uncannily connects with the audience, especially where it hurts. "Notes from the Underground," makes you loathe and feel loathesome at the same time. I would feel it would be worth it to be able to capture something like that and put it on paper, so I can agree with you there, C.R.
Hi Grouchy,
How do I tell you more about my books and writing? You too C.R.Donovan. Can we use this forum to discuss this? Does this not contravene any rules here? I could tell you how I wrote my books without the aid of a PC and how I scribbled everything in a writing pad on a daily basis as it happened, but apart from giving you the book titles I don't know how else to discuss things with you. But I'll try if there's a way.
Kind regards, chancer.
How do I tell you more about my books and writing? You too C.R.Donovan. Can we use this forum to discuss this? Does this not contravene any rules here? I could tell you how I wrote my books without the aid of a PC and how I scribbled everything in a writing pad on a daily basis as it happened, but apart from giving you the book titles I don't know how else to discuss things with you. But I'll try if there's a way.
Kind regards, chancer.
Hi Chancer,
Hmmm... I've never seen anything about not mentioning other work you may have written. True, we're a little off topic from discussing CC projects, but then the whole thread is about writing in general. I don't really know if it violates any CC principles, but hopefully someone who does know will weigh in. I have the idea that part of the purpose of this forum is to build community.
Hmmm... I've never seen anything about not mentioning other work you may have written. True, we're a little off topic from discussing CC projects, but then the whole thread is about writing in general. I don't really know if it violates any CC principles, but hopefully someone who does know will weigh in. I have the idea that part of the purpose of this forum is to build community.
-
Celeste Stewart
- Posts: 3528
- Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:28 pm
- Location: California
- Contact:
I'm under the impression that it's okay to discuss stuff like this too - if you want to of course. Just remember this is a public board so anyone can read it. So, if you have confidential info or your publisher doesn't want you promoting the book until it's been edited or whatever, keep that in mind.
We're all curious!
We're all curious!
Hi Grouchy,
I'm busy now with editing but I keep nipping back to C-C to nose around and look at what others are doing. I will put an article in when I'm not so busy. I realize that you cannot rush what you lot do. Quality of writing is higher with C-C, whereas with me, I have an editor to correct minor mistakes I make.
Judging from your previous observations, you probably realize I was an adrenalin junkie and did lots of crazy things. Writing turned my life around and now I am satisfied with what I do, I love writing.
One of the strange things about my work is that when I read the finished article I wonder who the hell wrote it! Did I do that? And it's a great feeling, especially when you see it on the shelf in the bookshop.
I received many rejections from publishers and I was dumped by a literary agent, but I persevered and won. So there's hope for everyone out there.
Regards, Chris.
I'm busy now with editing but I keep nipping back to C-C to nose around and look at what others are doing. I will put an article in when I'm not so busy. I realize that you cannot rush what you lot do. Quality of writing is higher with C-C, whereas with me, I have an editor to correct minor mistakes I make.
Judging from your previous observations, you probably realize I was an adrenalin junkie and did lots of crazy things. Writing turned my life around and now I am satisfied with what I do, I love writing.
One of the strange things about my work is that when I read the finished article I wonder who the hell wrote it! Did I do that? And it's a great feeling, especially when you see it on the shelf in the bookshop.
I received many rejections from publishers and I was dumped by a literary agent, but I persevered and won. So there's hope for everyone out there.
Regards, Chris.