rejection of BEAT THE HEAT!

[andersson]

My rejection email claims "a major portion of its contents are lifted directly from other authors." This is both wrong and insulting. I would NOT "lift" material from other authors. The article is written in AP style and the direct quotes in the piece are from subject matter experts interviewed by me for the purpose of writing the article. The quotes were also approved by the experts in the context of the article prior to its submission for publication.

Do you use an automated program that counts words in quotes? I thought human beings reviewed articles after submission.

[Ed]

Quotes were taken into account, but the quoted text comprised almost the entire article. This is against Fair Use rules, especially when large portions of the quoted text have been published elsewhere - CC cannot verify that you have been given permission. In addition, just because someone else gives you permission to quote them or use their information does not mean that this practice is okay. The greater percentage of the article still has to be in your own words, paraphrased with the source given credit, if need be. Direct quotations should be limited to a few sentences. We simply cannot accept articles that contain information that is found elsewhere in the same, or similar, form. This rule protect the buyers, writers, and CC.

Ed

[Celeste Stewart]

One of my big customers just sent out an email to their writers addressing a similar thing. Their position is that unless the quote was said (or emailed) directly to YOU, you can't use it as a direct quote.

Instead, you must paraphrase and name the source (as in: In a recent interview featured in "Name of Magazine" "Name of Article" by "Name of Author," Joe Blow said, "Blah, Blah, Blah.")

If interested, I can probably get the editor's permission to post her thoughts here. It made a lot of sense and was easy to understand.

[andersson]

THANKS CELESTE!

>>Celeste said:
>> " ... unless the quote was said (or emailed) directly to YOU,
>> you can't use it as a direct quote."

THANKS for clarifying my point.

>> Instead, you must paraphrase and name the source
>> (as in: In a recent interview featured in
>> "Name of Magazine" "Name of Article" by
>> "Name of Author," Joe Blow said, "Blah, Blah, Blah.")

I was going to ask if paraphrasing and rewriting the info from my interviewed sources would make this article suitable for constant-content. But that feels like "cheating" and "lifting" to me.

The article was apparently suitable for several other publications in the past, and has been my most-requested for reprints over the last ten years. CC has been the first time [b]anyone[/b]'s raised a flag about the way it was written. I didn't submit it here to make more money on it; I submitted it just because of the number of requests for reprints.

So can I infer from your comment above that if I rephrase and re-word and paraphrase the direct quotes of my subject-matter experts, making it appear that I am the author and the expert, then it'll pass the test with constant-content?

[grin]
now you see my dilemma.

>> If interested, I can probably get the editor's permission
>> to post her thoughts here.
>> It made a lot of sense and was easy to understand.

I can't speak for everyone else in the forum, but I would be VERY interested.

k.

[Celeste Stewart]

Hi,
Well, I'm not the editor so don't infer anything from me.

Actually, paraphrasing is less offensive as far as "lifting" goes. Imagine this:
Say Rolling Stone interviews Bill Gates and gets a choice interview with all kinds of tidbits. The writer who wrote that article worked hard to dig those quotes out, right? Let's say the Rolling Stone article said this:

"Microsoft will take over the world - and Mars too," Gates said with a chuckle. "Maybe even Pluto and beyond."

---
Now it's our turn as CC writers. Did Bill Gates say that to us? No. So technically, we can't write an article like this:

Example 1:
Watch out Martians - Bill Gates has you in his targets.

"Microsoft will take over the world - and Mars too," Gates said with a chuckle. "Maybe even Pluto and beyond."

So what's a Martian to do?

--- However, we can do this:

Example 2:

Watch out Martians - Bill Gates has you in his targets. According to a recent article by Joe Blow, [i]Bill Gates goes to Mars[/i], published in Rolling Stone Magazine, Gates wants to take over the world - and Mars too. In fact, Gates says that even Pluto and beyond are fair game."

So what's a Martian to do?


--- Notice the difference? The second one isn't "cheating or lifting" anything and is considered much more professional (despite the odd Martian angle) . It's clear to the reader that the writer didn't sit down face to face with Bill Gates. The first example implies that by the omission of attribution - which is unfair to the original writer who landed the interview and to the reader.

Hopefully it makes sense.

I'll see if I can get permission to post that email.

[quote]So can I infer from your comment above that if I rephrase and re-word and paraphrase the direct quotes of my subject-matter experts, making it appear that I am the author and the expert, then it'll pass the test with constant-content?
[/quote]

No, don't infer that you're the expert -- simply paraphrase and attribute properly. You're not Bill Gates. You didn't say you were taking over Mars. Just don't use direct quotes.

According to Reowioushkty Babblehieuytiwh, ruler of Mars, Bill Gates doesn't have a chance - they all use Macs.

[Celeste Stewart]

Hmmn, now that I am re-reading this, the interviews were done by you? A bit different situation than the above examples. But still, hopefully the info was useful or will be to someone, someday.

Since the article is posted elsewhere, I can see how Ed may not necessarily see that you are the original writer if bylines/pen names etc... don't appear on the articles published on the web.

[andersson]

>> Since the article is posted elsewhere,


IT'S NOT.

>> ... I can see how Ed may not necessarily see that you are the original
>> writer if bylines/pen names etc... don't appear on the articles published
>> on the web.

No pen names or pseuds ever. My story. Period.


Which "articles on the web" are you referring to ????

[Celeste Stewart]

Hmmn, I don't know

Ed said this:
[quote]when large portions of the quoted text have been published elsewhere - CC cannot verify that you have been given permission.
[/quote]

so I assumed the article was posted elsewhere plus you mentioned that it had sold numerous times previously.

Anyhow, sounds like Copyscape found the quotes posted on the Web which poses a problem unless properly cited. Obviously, I haven't seen the article, viewed the Copyscape results, or have any other info to go on other than this post and I've already misread it once so forgive me. Just trying to help... in a stumbling, roundabout manner with a screaming toddler who refuses to go to sleep.

One idea might be to run your text through Copyscape on your own to see what Ed sees. It might shed some light.

[andersson]

[i]" ... sounds like Copyscape found the quotes posted on the Web ...
[/i]

hmmmmmmmm. I hadn't considered that possibility. I may have a copy of this archived on MY website .... LOL ... now that would be funny, eh? copyscape bites me?

.[i].. forgive me. Just trying to help... in a stumbling, roundabout manner
with a screaming toddler who refuses to go to sleep.[/i]

OY. you have my sympathy. I had 4 in 5 years, now I have granddarlings. If it makes you feel any better, it's snowing like mad here in Montana (um, wait, did I mess up turning the pages on my calendar? Isn't this like APRIL?) ARGH. I have to drive to Missoula tomorrow (about an hour in summer weather) and now it looks like shovel off the porch. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Celeste Stewart]

4 toddlers in 5 years - yikes! Guess I have it made in the shade with just this little tyrant, I mean angel.

Anyhow, Copyscape catches a lot. It's not just Ed being Ed, it's Copyscape finding everything out there - even our own stuff. Plus, if anyone ever copied and pasted this article from your website and posted it elsewhere - it'll catch that. Imagine someone "lifting" your article on your website and posting it on their own blog without proper attribution....They may not have meant to be jerks or anything but stuff like that happens. Next thing you know, your article is posted elsewhere without proper credit. Now, Copyscape flags it, Ed rejects it, and here we are.

If you still have the article on your website, you can run a free Copyscape scan on that page. You can also run the text of the article but you have to buy something like $5 worth of scans first for this feature.

[Ed]

One of the quoted sources in the article has an article published in which the wording matches exactly the information contained within your article.

Ed

[Celeste Stewart]

Hi,
Here's the excerpt, copied with permission, from the editor for a large health/lifestyle website about using quotations. Hope this helps:

Quotes are great, but please quote carefully. You can use a direct quote if the source says it to YOU. If you get a great interview, you get to use all the things that person said, with attribution. Yee-haw. (“Cakes for baby showers are in much higher demand than they were five years ago,” said Patti Cake. “We get twice as many requests today for baby showers as we do birthday parties.”) This means Patti Cake was talking directly to you or e-mailing you, the writer. Now, you cannot quote the source like this if the source said it to some other writer in their own interview. That writer got that interview, so only he or she gets to use the direct quote. (We don’t want to steal a great interview, right?) You can paraphrase other people’s interviews, if you must, but we’d like to avoid this altogether. If it really, really works, though, or if you just absolutely must use it for some reason, just sum up what was said and give credit to the writer who got the interview, but don’t quote directly. (Text: According to expert Patti Cake, in her interview for Mad Cakes Magazine [“Name of article,” by Interviewer/Author Name], the demand for baby showers is truly on the rise.) Now the last option is to quote an expert (please note that it has to be an expert!) from their own book, website, article, etc. In this case, put the attribution in the present. (Text: Joe Schmo says in his book, Dating Til You’re Dead, that people tend to date for all the wrong reasons.) We put that in the present because Joe didn’t just say it once in an interview with you – that quote lives on in his book. If you have the actual book or actual article in front of you (and you’re not just going by what someone else says he says on the internet), and you can quote 100 percent accurately, you can use his actual words. (Text: Joe Schmo says in his book, Dating Til You’re Dead, “People tend to date for all the terribly wrong reasons.”) Please stick to quoting experts, however, not quoting general web sites. If you need an expert, call or e-mail one. They’re always thrilled to get their names in print. They can live in any state.

- Quotes from “regular people” are fine to add cute filler, but remember the state. Sometimes you guys are putting in quotes from regular people who simply add to the story as a regular grandma or someone who collects beehives or someone who attends showers or whatever, and that’s cool. The quotes are usually appropriate and tend to add a cute element to the story. If you do this, however, please provide the first and last name of the person and the state the person lives in. This “grounds” the reader in a national publication. (So like this: Eve Mason of Idaho says she always remembers her grandchildren’s birthdays with flower bouquets.) You can add the age, too, if it’s relevant to the story or relevant to the point you’re trying to make. (Eve Mason of Idaho, 82, says she works out with 5-pounds weights on a daily basis.)

[Ed]

Part of the problem is the percentage of the article quoted. The article was not set up as an interview. Even in cases where the New York Times or other large news media outlets have interviewed someone, they use brief quotations from that person and then paraphrase along with information that they have gotten from other sources.