Mistakes, and how to avoid them

[cjgarrett]

So I made another noobish mistake. Got an article back with some revision needed because I used the 'singular they', as in:

"Neither the highest scorer nor the lowest scorer in the group had any doubt about their competence."

Example from Wikipedia. The usage isn't correct according to a few style guides, which means I should have caught it before the article was submitted - if I had been paying attention, of course. The sentence above should be written like so, I think:

"Neither the highest scorer nor the lowest scorer in the group had any doubt about his or her competence."

It's a little more clunky, yes, but the other usage is not grammatically correct even though it's common. Time for me to break out my old Elements of Style book, eh? Anyone else want to share their mistakes?

CJ, over and out

[Elizabeth Ann West]

::cringes::
I once wrote a 5 page paper about how "they" used in the singular is becoming common usage to resolve the issue of gender neutrality. It chronicled how grammar has changed through the ages, for example a crowd of 99 people, 98 women and 1 man, in many romantic languages gets the male ending (apparently, the presence of one male appendage is powerful enough to dominate nouns). It was for a graduate course on grammar, and was an elective I took for my English minor because no other senior level electives were available. After the first few weeks, I withdrew and just pushed my graduation date back a semester (there were other reasons too, like my husband being on dry land for my graduation). Anyway, grammar does evolve. Don't get me started on comma use.... I wouldn't be surprised if our grandchildren are taught "they" can mean singular as well.

My stepson INSISTS his teach says both the shoes' laces and the shoes's laces is correct. I told him I'm telling him he will use s apostrophe when a plural noun ends in an s and you need to show possession. Period.

[cjgarrett]

That apostrophe s usage always read a bit strangely to me. I hear it used in speech, but written down the s seems to be omitted more often than not.

What's CC's preference, does anyone know?

[Celeste Stewart]

Elements of Style says:

Possesive singular nouns get an apostrophe s regardless of whether or not the noun itself ends in 's':
Charles's dog
The cat's meow

(Exception: ancient biblical names like Jesus' teachings and Moses' laws as well as words like righteousness (righteousness' sake) and conscience (conscience' sake).

Oddly, Strunk and White doesn't discuss the use for plural nouns. (OWL Purdue says "add ' to the end of plural nouns that end in -s"

You don't generally add an 's' after the apostrophe when discussing possesive plural nouns:
The kittens' mother (not kittens's)
The students' test results (not students's)

As far as shoes and their laces, the following are okay:
That shoe's laces are blue (refers to one shoe and its blue laces)
Those shoes' laces are frayed (refers to two or more shoes and their frayed laces)

Shoes's laces is incorrect (teachers can be wrong, too)

[Elizabeth Ann West]

That must be a new thing. I was taught noun ends in s, it's s'

I read a few resources and it looks like NOW the rule is s's for singular nouns as long as the pronunciation isn't awkward "Achilles's" versus "Achilles'"

Okay, so who decides if the pronunciation is awkward?

Those resources said that while s's CAN be used on singular nouns, s' is also correct.

Don't get me started on how they are teaching the kids spelling.....

[Celeste Stewart]

Singular nouns like Charles and James have been s's for a long time. My Elements of Style edition is from 2000.
Charles's
James's

with the exception of biblical and (perhaps?) mythical names like Jesus, Moses, and Isis
Jesus'
Moses'
Isis'

I'm not sure if Achilles would fall under the exception or not. My neighbor's son is named Achilles (that always catches me off guard), so I'd be tempted to treat it like James. Same with Jesus (the Spanish pronunciation) which is popular in Southern California.

Do you sources say it's okay to drop the s for singular common names like Charles and James or is it just for those biblical guys?

[cjgarrett]

I think it may be based on whether the noun in question has two s's in it, as a rule of thumb.

See for example, Jesus and Moses have two s's - James and Charles have only one.

I was under the impression that either usage was accepted and it depends on readability. If the word would read badly with the extra s, it's ok to leave it off at the writer's discretion.

Another question - in what other forum would this discussion not be weird?

[messenger77]

Oh, I love it when you talk that way! It sends chills down my spine! LOL. Talk about words and grammar usage just does something to me. Angela

[cjgarrett]

[Elizabeth Ann West]

I don't know if I posted this here or not, but the way my stepson is being taught spelling is with bizarro rules, not a spelling list.

His notes, for 5th grade, no kidding say this:

Doubling Rule

Double the last consonant in a word IF
-the suffix begins with a vowel
- the last syllable gets the stress or accent
- AND the last syllable ends in a consonant with only one vowel before it before another consonant.

But never double the last consonant if the word ends in an x, w, or y.

Seriously. What happened to spelling books? And bonus words? He gets a few examples in his notes, that are definitely on his spelling test, but other words are just ones that follow the rules. But i've cheated a little.... I found some resources online that give a ton of word examples for this crazy spelling curriculum, and so far, the words I give him to practice with are showing up on the tests. By practicing, I mean we take the white board, write the rules on there, and then he has to spell the word, like "tax" make it "taxing" (this is audible) and after he spells it he has to show me the rule that applied "it ended in x". How else do you help your kid practice?

Give me 20 word spelling list once a week over this crap any day!!!

[MelissaNott]

Ugh, I just tried to understand that list of rules and my brain hurts! No wonder so many kids don't like school anymore.

[Elizabeth Ann West]

And THEN Melissa there are the glorious exceptions.

The root word Confer.

The stress is on the last syllable, by itself. kuhn-FER

And when you add -ing, you double the last r

Conferring.

BUT, when you add the suffix -ence, which begins with a vowel, we happen to pronounce that word differently, where the stress is on the first syllable, KON-fer-uhns, Therefore, you DON'T double the "r"

Conference.

Then you have words like differ, where the stress never moves, so differing and difference both only have one "r."

It really is too bad we couldn't home school due to the nonsense going on at his mother's house. If we can get primary care, he is so learning at home..... This is ridiculous.

[jadedragon]

Those rules make no sense - and I think there are exceptions. Easier to memorize the words or turn on spell checker. I can't spell well anyway, that is why I use a computer.