Submission/Review question

[ThisOldMan]

Wolves? You mean the man-eating kind?

About birth certificates. Here in Thailand, it is a very understanding system. You can put anyone as the father, no questions asked. In extreme cases, your own father can be registered as the father of your own child so you become a sibling of your offspring. I discovered this when I talked to a friend who had his baby dumped on him after the woman who bore the child took off right after the childbirth. So he did the only thing he could think of. He took his new-born son back to his parents' home. The old folks were delighted to take care of their grandson but insisted that the baby had to be registered under their names. So now, legally, he is the elder brother of his own son. The only person complaining was his brother, his only other sibling. His brother accused him, in jest actually, that their parents' property now had to be split three ways instead of just two.

There are also many other advantages of living here in Thailand. That's why I have been here for the last two decades. And planning to be here for the next two decades if I live that long.

[BarryDavidson]

I have yet to hear of any legislation which requires any kind of tests, and passing thereof, that need to be taken before a human being is allowed to produce and nurture more human beings.

I've actually theorized over the years about requiring at least an IQ test before people are allowed to breed. Unfortunately, I never came up with a viable scenario where this would work. I mean, who would get to decide the criteria? I shudder to think of what would happen if politicians were to actually implement something like this.

The current trend in the US is that parents have less right to raise their children than the state. It's almost a page out of the communist manifesto, or socialist writings. It only takes reading a few chapters of "It Takes a Village" to understand that parents will have virtually no right to be parents in the coming years if the people don't make a stand. Take Virginia as an example. Here, children are required by law to go to school every day school is in session until they're eighteen or graduate. There are a maximum number of days they can miss, but if the school decides at any time that your child has missed excessive days they report you to the county. The county then puts you and your child under "supervision". The county can also decide that you're a criminal, and charge you with a crime. You can also be charged if your child has behavioral problems that "you fail" to correct even though you're not allowed to more than give them a time-out.

Read the Convention on the Rights of the Child some time. While it sounds like a very intriguing idea, I read through it once and it scared the hell out of me. I can even see the need for something like it in third world countries where children are treated as low value pieces of property to be exploited. If it were ratified in the US it would supersede all existing family and domestic laws under Article VI of the constitution.

Here I am, running off at the finger again. Let's just say that I fear for the American family. In a country where school districts can force you to medicate your children before they're allowed to go to school, and they're required to go by law, parents of both genders need to keep a sharp eye out before their children are taken from both of them.

[Jaye]

Georgia, where my brother-in-law lives, is so backwards that his children aren't legally recognized as his even though he's on their birth certificates (he wasn't married to their mother at the time).

Evelyn, this exact same situation exists in Ireland. It means that if I drop dead tomorrow, my partner (and father of our children) has absolutely no legal rights to them. The kids could be taken into the care of the state, and he would have to plead his case in court to become legal guardian of his own kids. Scary stuff.

Interesting thread all round.

[Judith]

Fascinating thread Everything from Matriachal societies, to ... Who's Your Daddy?
BTW my culture is matriarchal.

[ThisOldMan]

Really? Where is your location? Need to know so that I know where not to go. Just joking.

[Judith]

Really? Where is your location? Need to know so that I know where not to go. Just joking.

I'm Abenaki (Algoquian language group) American Indian from the northeast corner of the United States. It's buried deep in ice and snow right now so I am presently enjoying a little Florida sunshine!

[VersantScribe]

I know, the thread really opened up, didn't it?

I'm pretty terrified for American families in general. I don't have kids yet, but I plan to in the next few years. As fabulous as the thought of making sure idiot's don't breed could BE, I couldn't trust anyone not to run that all the way to hell. The reason I say this is because of all the tests they used to run on the Native American's (and others) back in the 20's-40's when they were sterilizing them WITHOUT telling them. The government was trying to decide who had "unwanted" characteristics and which families were "crazy" according to the THEIR criteria. In essence, it obliterated the Native American population around the nation. Well, that and other atrocities. I'd love to have a test that people had to take before being allowed to procreate, I just don't the trust scorers! I mean, our government has a long history of extremely unethical "research" projects in its past.

I'm leaning very strongly towards Homeschooling for my future kids. Not only was I homeschooled through Elementary school, but my sister went all the way through high school and it has been an amazing benefit to her. There are SO MANY THINGS for current families to contend with. Thinking about it really makes my heart sad and scared. We're in a very, very bad place all around.

[VersantScribe]

Judith, you may think this is soooo bizarre... but the book I read about the sterilization of the Native Americans was actually ABOUT the Abenaki in Maine. It's a book by Jodi Picoult called "Second Glance." What are the odds that after I'm thinking of that, you say you're from there? Just crazy!

[Judith]

Judith, you may think this is soooo bizarre... but the book I read about the sterilization of the Native Americans was actually ABOUT the Abenaki in Maine. It's a book by Jodi Picoult called "Second Glance." What are the odds that after I'm thinking of that, you say you're from there? Just crazy!

That actually was the Abenaki in Vermont ... that state had a horrific eugenics program in the '20s and '30s. I haven't read the book but it sounds interesting. I'll check it out. The Abenaki in Maine are not recognized by the state of the Feds. My reserve is Odonak, in Quebec. Most of the Abenaki were driven from Maine to Canada after Arnold's march. The reserve in Quebec was burned and many women and children murdered. But, that was then and this is now. The past is a reminder we must never go back.

[Judith]

I know, the thread really opened up, didn't it?

I'm pretty terrified for American families in general. I don't have kids yet, but I plan to in the next few years. As fabulous as the thought of making sure idiot's don't breed could BE, I couldn't trust anyone not to run that all the way to hell. The reason I say this is because of all the tests they used to run on the Native American's (and others) back in the 20's-40's when they were sterilizing them WITHOUT telling them. The government was trying to decide who had "unwanted" characteristics and which families were "crazy" according to the THEIR criteria. In essence, it obliterated the Native American population around the nation. Well, that and other atrocities. I'd love to have a test that people had to take before being allowed to procreate, I just don't the trust scorers! I mean, our government has a long history of extremely unethical "research" projects in its past.

I'm leaning very strongly towards Homeschooling for my future kids. Not only was I homeschooled through Elementary school, but my sister went all the way through high school and it has been an amazing benefit to her. There are SO MANY THINGS for current families to contend with. Thinking about it really makes my heart sad and scared. We're in a very, very bad place all around.

Idiots will always breed. How else would we recognize genius? Just remember, if you give three children to the world, your influence for good will be tripled.

[VersantScribe]

That actually was the Abenaki in Vermont ... that state had a horrific eugenics program in the '20s and '30s. I haven't read the book but it sounds interesting. I'll check it out. The Abenaki in Maine are not recognized by the state of the Feds. My reserve is Odonak, in Quebec. Most of the Abenaki were driven from Maine to Canada after Arnold's march. The reserve in Quebec was burned and many women and children murdered. But, that was then and this is now. The past is a reminder we must never go back.

You're right! It was Vermont! Sorry, I haven't been to those states yet so sometimes I confuse them. The book is extremely interesting, and if you've ever read Picoult you know she always blends a little bit of the mystical with actual science. She's my favorite. Anyway, that story really tore me up! I'm part Cherokee, and learning of the horrible things our government has done just makes me sick to my stomach.

Anyway, I love your take on having children!

[Judith]

That actually was the Abenaki in Vermont ... that state had a horrific eugenics program in the '20s and '30s. I haven't read the book but it sounds interesting. I'll check it out. The Abenaki in Maine are not recognized by the state of the Feds. My reserve is Odonak, in Quebec. Most of the Abenaki were driven from Maine to Canada after Arnold's march. The reserve in Quebec was burned and many women and children murdered. But, that was then and this is now. The past is a reminder we must never go back.

You're right! It was Vermont! Sorry, I haven't been to those states yet so sometimes I confuse them. The book is extremely interesting, and if you've ever read Picoult you know she always blends a little bit of the mystical with actual science. She's my favorite. Anyway, that story really tore me up! I'm part Cherokee, and learning of the horrible things our government has done just makes me sick to my stomach.

Anyway, I love your take on having children!

I have five children and twelve grandchildren. I am doing my part to restore sanity!

[ThisOldMan]

After I read the last few posts, I started to type my response. Passed the 200-word mark, deleted everything and started again. Here is the revised version.

I am glad to know that some branches of the Great Plains Nations are still thriving. I look forward to the day when a native American takes up residence in the White House. Is there any website dedicated to bringing together the scattered tribes?

Just some (edited) thoughts from
Hallelujah Lovelight
There there is Love, there is Light.

[Judith]

After I read the last few posts, I started to type my response. Passed the 200-word mark, deleted everything and started again. Here is the revised version.

I am glad to know that some branches of the Great Plains Nations are still thriving. I look forward to the day when a native American takes up residence in the White House. Is there any website dedicated to bringing together the scattered tribes?

Just some (edited) thoughts from
Hallelujah Lovelight
There there is Love, there is Light.

All the tribes that are federally recognized have reservations. Personally I would never live on one, although I am a member of one. Lots of reasons I'll save for another time. The tribes and nations are all different. Beliefs and religions are different as well as customs. Clothing is also different. We do have some inter-tribal pow wows, but we don't dance to or sing another tribe's music as it would be disrespectful. There are a few social songs we might all all share in song or dance. Indians raised in their traditions prefer to be called by their tribe or American Indian. The Plains Indians are western Indians and at one time claimed over thirty tribes in the US, plus there were additional tribes in Canada. In the US alone there remains about 4,000 tribes but only a little over 500 of them are recognized by the government.

I believe this thread has been hijacked to the point we are all subject to arrest!!

[BarryDavidson]

Never know who you'll meet on line.

Many of my ancestors were forcibly marched to Oklahoma. I have never attempted to register with my tribe though. After reading about all the people who flocked to register when the blood percentage was lowered to establish membership made me very sad - not to mention a little angry as well. The anger part was because I've met some of the people who registered (minimum blood), and they only did it for want of something to do as well as other reasons associated with greed. The sadness was because I truly wished to know more about my ancestors, yet I didn't want to be thought of like those who made me angry. (Sounds crazy doesn't it?)