Continuation of Another Thread

[BarryDavidson]

It was suggested several times in another thread in Author Exchange that we split off to a more appropriate area of the forums. In the thread we covered matriarchal societies, the demasculation (I know it's not a word) of boys, Native American subjects, and quite a few others that slip my mind at the moment. Personally, I love discussions like that - especially when there's no mud slinging. It's refreshing to discuss a subject without being attacked for having an opinion which goes against certain political concerns. At any rate...


I noticed a public request for an article about underage boys being charged with sex crimes. While each state has their own laws regarding the subject, I started doing a little research. For those of you thinking about writing about the subject, be sure to read the Adam Walsh Act and the Wetterling Act. All states already have the Wetterling act in place, but the federal government is threatening states (usually about withholding money) who have not adopted all the measures in the Adam Walsh Act yet. Just a little help on my part, even though I will be working on an article of my own.

I knew things were getting crazy, but once I really started researching... I was quite disgusted at some of the things I found. Sure, there are some juveniles who need to be charged, but I found a case of a three year old being charged with a sex crime for lifting up a woman's skirt and looking under it. (Still confirming that story, so feel free to use it if you can confirm it first.) There seems to be a political and media war going on. While I feel sorry for this generation I have to say that I'm so glad that I was born in the last. Under new laws, not to mention political environment, almost every guy I knew growing up would be on the sex offender registry. Call me crazy, but I will be writing other articles about the subject. They probably won't be accepted on CC, but letting voters know that their children (especially sons) are in danger is something I intend to do.

[ThisOldMan]

Am I too old to take part in this crusade? I have only got seven sons. They are now out of the danger zone age-wise, I hope. Seriously, I think it's not only the young males who are being targeted. Adult males are also in their cross-hairs.

[Judith]

Unfortunately we have become a society of victims. The courts shell out large sums of money to those who portray their lives as irreparably damaged. This has become a lucrative business. I personally think it is evil for any person to disregard the life of another, and make false accusations in order to make a few dollars. And I also believe, when an accused person is not guilty, the accuser should receive the punishment the accused would have received if guilty. I think that would put an end to false accusations. Having said all that, when a person is guilty and many are, they need to pay the price.

[BarryDavidson]

Seriously, I think it's not only the young males who are being targeted. Adult males are also in their cross-hairs.

You may have something there, but laws designed to protect minors from predators are being used to ruin the lives of boys (and a few girls here and there) so that politicians and media consultants can whip up public sentiment (increase their market share). After I turned 18, I actually checked ID's. In Missouri, where I was at the time, if there was less than a two year difference in ages (him 18, her 16 for example), it took the parents of the girl pressing charges to cause an arrest. Of course, the age of consent was seventeen in Missouri then. Eighteen year old boys used to joke, "Fifteen will get you twenty," back in those days. Now, it's literally true - plus they'll be in an online registry which will follow them for the rest of their lives. But what about the sixteen year old boy who has consensual sex with his fifteen year old girlfriend? I'm not sure where the justice is by placing him on the sex offender registry for ten years to life, barring him from school activities, barring him from getting a decent job, and forcing him to inform the college he wishes to intend of his status - not to mention all the other restrictions which will be placed on him.

[Evelyn]

We have to remember that we're in this current climate because daughters were victimized for a few thousand years, and still are in some cultures. My mother's generation made progress for mine, and my generation started to overshoot the mark, and now my daughter's generation must pull in the reins and get a handle on what's happening.

It's a great idea to stand up for sons--I've been blessed with only a daughter and stepdaughters, but someday some of them might marry men and then I'll be blessed with sons. Most of the boys I know are pretty good people, somewhat lazier than maybe I'd like but still pretty good. Trouble is, they don't really know what they're about--life isn't clearcut for them anymore. Funny enough, it's more clearcut for my girls and their parents' expectations are pretty darn high.

It really got underway in the 70s with the rise of the self-help generation, the fall of organized family/religion/culture, and an increasing dependence on THINGS. Is it possible to teach any child that he/she doesn't NEED a cell phone, Facebook page, or a Wii, enough clothes so they never wear the same thing twice, a car on the 16th birthday, etc. etc.? My stepdaughters are spoiled in this way, and it shows in some of the things they do. Underneath they're good people... on the outside they have unrealistic expectations.

I'm pretty proud that my daughter (19 years old) considers indoor plumbing a very nice convenience, the cheapest computer a godsend, and a college education a gift from the state and her parents. Perhaps many kids are like her, and we just hear about the "bad" kids. I know very few truly bad kids...

Balance. Life is about balance. Thinking people can think things through. Unfortunately, sensationalism makes much better news, and setting someone up as an example is supposed to keep others from committing the same errors.

[BarryDavidson]

Unfortunately, sensationalism makes much better news, and setting someone up as an example is supposed to keep others from committing the same errors.

Evelyn, you said a mouthful right there. It's too bad that the media doesn't care one whit about the latter part of that sentence, and lawmakers just throw together knee-jerk legislation to show the voters that they truly care. I agree with the rest of your post too. I have a son and two daughters. Of course I was afraid to let my daughters outside alone with five convicted pedophiles (not including regular sex offenders) living within four blocks of my home when I lived in Maryland. I adapted. I went outside with them, and we eventually moved to a place with a lot more room. I still fear for my daughters, but not as much as I used to. I will always fear for my children, just about different things as they grow. I hope I can do a few things better because I remember my reactions to being told things by my parents.

Still, I've seen a few instances where girls are being required to register as sex offenders as well. In one recent case the girl was both the offender and the victim.

Years ago, my son grabbed his teacher's butt on a dare. He was six at the time, and had no idea that it could have been labeled as a sex offense. He just didn't think that way. If he had done the same thing in the last few years, he probably would have been expelled or worse.

My mother's generation made progress for mine, and my generation started to overshoot the mark, and now my daughter's generation must pull in the reins and get a handle on what's happening.

Let's hope that they can. I will keep everything that I can crossed in the hope that our children's futures won't be hampered by what ours is doing now.

Ironically, I was one of those non-voting lazy types in my youth. I always though that my vote couldn't possible make a difference. Then, I had a family of my own. I started paying attention, and what I was seeing made me fear for their future. That's when I decided that I HAD to do something to ensure they had better lives.

[Judith]

There is another sub-topic I believe is connected to this thread and that is the offering of free condoms at schools. This encourages kids to engage in behavior that may up getting them arrested and labeled. It just seems to me that the people who give them the condoms and encourage them to have teen sex should be required to be equally labeled as a sex offender, if the teen should find themselves in that situation because of a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. How can they expect them not to engage in sex when they tell them how and give them the condoms or birth control pills.

[ThisOldMan]

First, the female of the species had always been in control. They mature earlier. So while the juvenile males are still counting marbles, the already-mature females are already counting the days to when they can get a male to serve them. In some ways, the males never mature. Even at fifty, a male would still get a thrill out of watching people chase after a ball. Whereas at fifteen, a female would be already thinking about what's the best camouflage to put on so as to better sneak up on an unsuspecting male.

Really, I am serious. Just watch, say, a fifteen-year-old boy going out with a fifteen-year-old girl. The boy is still fumbling but the girl already knows what's going on.

It's a bit too late for me now because all my children have grown up and are on their own. For those whose children are still growing up, talk to them while you still can before they leave your lives forever. Tell them about justice and fair play while they would still listen. Tell them men and women are meant to be partners not adversaries, or worse yet, enemies. And seriously consider re-locating somewhere safer. We are still too few in number to fight back. We need to fall back and re-group. And don't give up hope.

A seriously sincere view point from
Hallelujah Lovelight.
'All it takes is a smile to light up my love.'

[BarryDavidson]

First, the female of the species had always been in control.

Some don't know it, and many others use the excuse of not knowing to do some of the things they do. You know the old saying, "Power corrupts." I will say that, depending on the profession, that's absolutely true of both sexes. The ones who say differently are trying to sell something. I just wish we'd get a decent Supreme Court.

In my studies of laws, I've come across quite a few of their decisions which were based solely for political reasons. Quite a few of the big issues we now face in this country were because of decisions made by that Court in this last forty years. Take campaign finance as an example. The decision that money was an extension of the first amendment right to freedom of speech was Buckley v. Valeo in 1976. The case was a response to some of the measures in the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 which severely limited where, when, and how politicians could accept and spend campaign contributions. Ironically, congress passed that act over Gerald Ford's veto. All of the so-called campaign finance reform acts proposed and passed in recent years are window dressings.

It's funny, but years ago I used to say, "When I'm president I'll do..." And the list grows from there. Then I started researching. Fooey... The president can promise all he wants, but there's not a lot he can do if he wants real reforms. He can ask, suggest, beg, plead and other assorted groveling, but he cannot change laws. After finding out that only one president in history has not violated the constitution, I decided that being president might not be such a good thing after all. To get there I'd have to make too many promises, spend too much money, and otherwise violate many of my own personal ethics.

[Judith]

Barry, to say

After finding out that only one president in history has not violated the constitution

and then not tell us which president is not acceptable lol WHO? WHO? WHO?

[ThisOldMan]

I think if we start by accepting the truth that our mothers had much more influence on us than our fathers did, then I think we can get somewhere. Then we can put more effort into teaching our daughters to teach the right things to our grandchildren. Instead of treating our daughters like some waste byproduct of our biological urges.

This may seem like a total about-face but really it's not. Honoring our mothers has got nothing to do with worshiping women. To identity the main source of our psychological make-up is to be smart. If we marginalize our daughters, we cannot blame them for having a grudge against men in general. As daughters, they may find it hard to go against their fathers. However, later on in life, as mothers, there is nothing to stop them from subverting their sons, so that said sons will grow up to be subconsciously subservient to women.

Think about it. How many mothers would teach their sons to smack a woman in the face when she would not stop nagging? Really, that nagging strategy is one of the greatest weapons in a woman's arsenal. Nagging is more powerful and has crushed more men than, say, a sexy flutter of the eyelashes. Giving her one right where it counts may sound kind of caveman-like but if anyone has a more effective way of silencing a nag, I am all ears.

[Judith]

As a woman, I wonder why a man would find himself in a situation where he was being nagged. I told my son's to judge who they marry by how her mother treats her father. When a young girl watches her mother be naggy or abusive in some way to her father, expect her to treat her husband in the same way. Young men and young women need to observe their potential spouse's family interaction before they go jumping into a marriage just because the other person is "hot!" A marriage certainly must be a partnership, in which both parties work together for success.

In my culture the grandmother does most of that type of training with young girls, as the mother is busy with all the other aspects of keeping a home and rasing a family. The mother teaches the daughter cooking, sewing, and all the other skills and the father teaches the boys working skills such as carpentry, hunting, etc. The mother often must work and the grandparents are the teachers. They also teach the family history as well.

As for the nagging woman ... well slapping her won't help. She will keep right on nagging. I would ask... How much is life worth and how much of it are we given? We know the answer to the first question .. life is priceless. The second question we cannot answer because no one knows how much time they are given on this earth, soooooooooo If you are stuck with a nagging woman is it worth giving up one more day of that priceless life by staying with her? The same would go for an abusive man ... a woman should not be subjected to that either.

[BarryDavidson]

and then not tell us which president is not acceptable lol WHO? WHO? WHO?

Oops... The 15th President of the United States, James Buchanan. The one they blame for the civil war when in fact he couldn't do anything legal to stop it.

The top two violators of the constitution, in order, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt.

[ThisOldMan]

@ Judith
You have a point there. No one, man or woman, should allow themselves to suffer in a hell on earth. However, the laws governing matrimony seem to indicate otherwise. A man has to give up a hand and a leg, so to say, to buy his freedom. A woman, it seems, can get her freedom as well as a parting gift. Sometimes the parting gift is a recurring payment. I personally know one man who finally managed to get a divorce and, the last I checked, was still living on a bare subsistence diet. It's not that he cannot earn money. It's just that nearly all his income had gone to paying for alimony. I really think it's time for all right-thinking men and women to stand up to this ridiculous state of affairs. Fight for a change while there is still something left to change. We never know when there will be a new law passed that forces all men to contribute to, say, a trust fund for single mothers.

btw I like the way your people live. If anything threatens that way of life, make sure to fight tooth and nail. There are a lot of miserable people out there who want to make other people more miserable than them.

Just curious. What are the chances of an old man like me joining one of your tribes? I am totally de-wifed, so the whole wide world is my home.

[Judith]

@ Judith
You have a point there. No one, man or woman, should allow themselves to suffer in a hell on earth. However, the laws governing matrimony seem to indicate otherwise. A man has to give up a hand and a leg, so to say, to buy his freedom. A woman, it seems, can get her freedom as well as a parting gift. Sometimes the parting gift is a recurring payment. I personally know one man who finally managed to get a divorce and, the last I checked, was still living on a bare subsistence diet. It's not that he cannot earn money. It's just that nearly all his income had gone to paying for alimony. I really think it's time for all right-thinking men and women to stand up to this ridiculous state of affairs. Fight for a change while there is still something left to change. We never know when there will be a new law passed that forces all men to contribute to, say, a trust fund for single mothers.

btw I like the way your people live. If anything threatens that way of life, make sure to fight tooth and nail. There are a lot of miserable people out there who want to make other people more miserable than them.

Just curious. What are the chances of an old man like me joining one of your tribes? I am totally de-wifed, so the whole wide world is my home.

In order to belong to a tribe, you have to have a blood-quotient. It depends on the tribe how much you must have. But you can always be friends with most any tribe... visit them... go to powwows ... enjoy the lifestyle.